So are we not getting the next gen Fiesta in the US?

"LJ909" (lj909) 07/05/2017 at 14:15 • Filed to: None

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Its not clear. For some reason, Ford has either evaded or been tight lipped about the Fiesta’s future in North America. TTAC asked Ford about it and they said : “Customer demand for small vehicles continues to grow globally, and Fiesta is an important part of our portfolio. We’ll have more to say about other markets at a later date” Um ok? Motor Trend asked them about the new Fiesta and they said : “We are introducing the new Fiesta in Europe and Middle East and Africa at this time and will have more to say about other markets at a later date. Fiesta remains an important part of our lineup.”  And apparently its very good with MT saying its one of the best subcompacts on the market. So what gives? Whatever the reason is they wont say. Could it have something to do with the Mexican production? Or sales of cars in comparison to crossovers not being so hot? Whatever it is, I just know the next ST wont be as hot as the current gen. Second gens of cars like that cool off. Just look at the first gen Mazdaspeed 3 compared to the second gen.

Dasupersprint - base trim is enough > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 14:23

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How do you know how the ST will be? I’m quite hyped for the 3 cylinder ST! And Ford never disapointed in the last seven years in performance cars (since the 2011 5.0 and 3.7 Mustang)

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 14:31

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Yeah, the new FiST will probably a bit be less hot, it also seems to be much bigger. Globally speaking the previous FiST wasn’t the first gen though, that would have been this:

The Fiesta ST150.

Textured Soy Protein > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 14:32

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Looking at the sales figures , the Fiesta took a big dip from 64,458 in 2015 to 48,807 in 2016.

Generally the compact segment sells a lot better than subcompacts. The best selling subcompact is the Nissan Versa, and if you combined the compact and subcompact lists, this year it would be at #8 after the Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Focus, Cruze, Elantra and Forte. Versa sales are 20% off from last year.

The Fiesta is also outsold by the Jetta, Impreza, and Mazda 3, and Accent. The Fit, Yaris and Fiesta are basically in a dead heat at the moment.

So if you’ve got a low-margin car that’s not selling super high volumes, it’s hard to make a business case for it. Most “compact” cars are perfectly roomy for 4 adults and still give 30+ mpg on regular gas. So with the lease deals and/or 72+ month financing out there on those compacts, a lot of new car buyers don’t see much reason to go down to a subcompact.

Levitas > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 14:35

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The real answer is fully apparent: Americans don’t like small, low-profit vehicles, and they don’t like sedans/hatches. The only thing Ford can do to try and make money is leverage the crossover version, the EcoSport. Which, remember back to last year, they made a huge deal for the launch. At this point it’s all but a given that the new Fiesta is not coming to NA because Ford can’t make money on them over here like they do in Europe, even if they brought just the ST.

Another giveaway is that no next-gen Fiesta prototypes have been spotted stateside that I’m aware of; no testing and validation here, it’s not coming here. Compare that to EcoSport, there’s dozens around Dearborn area.

Related: I has a huge sad because the ST is probably my favorite car to date and I really wanted the next one.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 07/05/2017 at 14:39

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Awwww wook at the wittle baby Focus.

LJ909 > Dasupersprint - base trim is enough 07/05/2017 at 14:42

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History has shown us time and again that sometimes second gen performance cars dont feel as special as the first ones. I think the ST will feel like that. While the current gen feels like SVT actually did some skunkworks stuff to make it work, this next gen might feel like its just a trim level that happens to have go fast parts, not the other way around.

LJ909 > Textured Soy Protein 07/05/2017 at 14:48

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Subcompacts in general in some cases just seem a weird place to be, and can sometimes suffer from canalization above and below. Look at the Sonic for instance. The Spark below it got a total redesign and the Cruze above did also. But those sales could be the reason why they might be rethinking their sales strategy here.

LJ909 > Levitas 07/05/2017 at 14:52

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If that is true, and you have a point with no prototypes running around, then they should be announcing it soon. The Ecosport though will have a hard case for it if it comes here with the ancient side opening hatch. I just dont care for crossovers in general, especially crossovers that are based on subcompacts.

Dasupersprint - base trim is enough > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 14:55

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This current gen Fiesta ST is not the first, it’s only the first that US got. The ST name has been around in Europe for long. I don’t know if SVT had something to do with it.

Mondeo ST220 hummmm

jonny11quest > Textured Soy Protein 07/05/2017 at 14:59

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Doesn ’ t the Focus compete with the Jetta, Impreza, and Mazda 3? Not the Fiesta?
Edit: Nevermind. Reading comprehension = not good.

Klaus Schmoll > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:03

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My best guess is that they will pull the pig-with-lipstick trick again, like they did with the Focus “MK2" in the US. So expect a facelift of the current car to slightly match what the rest of the world gets.

Levitas > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:03

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I’ve seen a few, and the side open hatch with spare tire carrier remind me of the first gen or 2 of the CR-V. Knowing Americans currently, will probably sell very well. I surely won’t buy one, because I’m like you and in general hate all crossovers.

LJ909 > Klaus Schmoll 07/05/2017 at 15:06

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If they do this, which I think they would, it would go directly against their “One Ford” world initiative.

LJ909 > Levitas 07/05/2017 at 15:07

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Yea thats exactly what it reminded me of as well first gen and turn of the century CR-Vs. But people wont care until they start to see how annoying it is to live with on a daily basis.

Klaus Schmoll > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:10

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“One Ford, one Schmord!” Didn’t they only do it with selct vehicles anyway? Let’s just think of the “global” Ranger, or how the Mondeo/Fusion were entered into their respective markets two years apart, or.....

LJ909 > Klaus Schmoll 07/05/2017 at 15:14

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Nah I think it was most if not all outside of the full size trucks and SUV’s. Its why Europe finally got the Mustang and we finally got the RS. There is overlap though so we dont get some trims and stuff such as their Vignale trims in Europe, which are so nice in trim, they would cancel out Lincoln if offered here.

Textured Soy Protein > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:29

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Except for the Toyota Yaris, the whole subcompact segment is off from last year. But it’s hard to tell how much of that is due to other models stealing their sales vs. the general downturn in regular cars vs. crossovers, because most of the compact segment is also down this year. There are at least a few more of those doing better than last year, namely the Cruze, Elantra, Forte, Impreza, Corolla/Scion iM and Golf.

(Numbers here )

Cé hé sin > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:37

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It would, but I think they’re backtracking a little on the “One Ford” thing now due to market realities.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 07/05/2017 at 15:37

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I love these things. A coworker has a 2008 and despite having the offer of a brand new company car, he refuses to get rid of it because he loves it that much. Got it new as a company car and bought it at the end of the lease.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Textured Soy Protein 07/05/2017 at 15:38

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My parking lot observations are telling me the new Impreza is doing gangbusters. I see them everywhere.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 07/05/2017 at 15:39

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The headlights look like they are from a Honda Fit.

Klaus Schmoll > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 15:43

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??????????

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 07/05/2017 at 15:44

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Can’t unsee, haha. Looks like they just tilted them a bit.

LJ909 > Textured Soy Protein 07/05/2017 at 15:44

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Yea I was looking at those numbers this morning. It is hard to tell though. Because with the price point, you would assume that the crossovers dont have anything to do with this because people at this price point generally cant afford a crossover the subcompact is based on. Its either something from this segment or used. Maybe people are turned off in general?

LJ909 > Cé hé sin 07/05/2017 at 15:46

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Yep. One of those good on paper things thats not working so well with the market shift. It could work if only for key models in key markets that actually want them.

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 07/05/2017 at 15:47

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Yeah they are quite awesome, wanted to buy one before I realised that owning a car costs money (16 year old me dreaming about which car to save up for). Together with the Clio 3 RS this was one of the last old fashioned hot hatches (big NA engine out of a bigger car and a manual)

BahamaTodd > Levitas 07/05/2017 at 15:57

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EcoRaptor!

BahamaTodd > Levitas 07/05/2017 at 16:00

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Well we won’t be getting the tire carrier in the US. Side opening hatch is still there.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Klaus Schmoll 07/05/2017 at 16:14

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I’m not sure the US is ready for the Ka. US vehicles are ridiculously huge.

It is interesting that they didn’t bring it over, though...

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 07/05/2017 at 16:42

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Yeah it’s definitely the last of a breed. Amusingly the older N/A ST gets better fuel economy than another coworkers newer turbo one.

jimz > Cé hé sin 07/05/2017 at 16:50

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to be fair, the “One Ford” thing from a product perspective was to stop treating all of the regions as though they were completely separate companies. it never meant selling all models in every market.

it was meant to get rid of silly stuff like North America having one midsize vehicle platform (CD2/CD3) while the rest of the world had a completely different one (EUCD.)

jimz > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/05/2017 at 16:52

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The “old” Ka was an A-segment (city) car on a Fiat platform.

the new Ka is a B-segment car on the Fiesta platform. it’s basically a lower-cost Fiesta for emerging markets, just like the Escort is a “value” Focus for China. If the Fiesta isn’t selling very well here, the Ka would do even worse. Especially with its 70 horsepower engines.

Textured Soy Protein > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 07/05/2017 at 16:53

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So far in 2017, Impreza is up 44% over last year.

I’ve started seeing a bunch of the new Imprezas in the last couple months. My wife drives a 2016 Impreza that we leased last April. We thought about extending the lease on her old 2013 Civic to hold out for the 2017 Impreza , but I definitely hadn’t seen any of the 2017 Imprezas even by this past winter. Maybe they started trickling in to the dealers around the end of last year but I’ve only really observed them out in the wild starting this spring.

We still like her car and she talks about buying it at the end of the lease, but we’ll see what kind of deals are out there when the lease is up. Subaru is already advertising comparable lease deals on the 2017 to what we did on her 2016. We could buy her car but she drives such low miles (~8300 miles on her car after not quite 15 months) that leasing makes a lot of sense for her. That could very well be another Impreza, and also the new Hyunda Kona& Kia Stonic look kinda interesting, but whether they’re a viable option for us depends on if the back seat is as roomy as an Impreza.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > jimz 07/05/2017 at 16:56

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But why didn’t they bring it to Canada? This could compete in the “my new car is cheaper than your new car” game in eastern provinces. The Micra is the king of the hill in this market to my knowledge.

Also, I would expect the base model to come in under the Versa in price. Nissan has sold plenty of Versas in spite of only having 109hp.

Textured Soy Protein > LJ909 07/05/2017 at 16:58

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I mean crossovers in general taking sales away from cars in general more than subcompacts in particular. Right now there are several sub-$200/month deals on compact crossovers like the RAV4, Rogue and Santa Fe. There are cheaper deals on compact sedans but for a lot of people the extra $30-40/month is worth it to get the crossover.

At this point the subcompact segment is for a mix of people who genuinely want those cars, and people who want the absolute cheapest possible brand new car with a warranty.

jimz > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 07/05/2017 at 17:38

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Probably because they still wouldn’t sell enough to justify certifying for North America. I’ve driven a few examples of the new Ka, even in the most parsimonious regions of Canada I can’t see something like it being a money maker.

Nissan has sold plenty of Versas in spite of only having 109hp.

Believe me, the Ka is ungodly slow. 109 hp is a lot more than 70 (when you get below 100, a difference of 30-40 horsepower is huge. ) Plus the Ka is geared to be a city car, very short gearing. The way you drive one is “shift to 1st, clutch out, floor it. Clutch in, shift to 2nd, clutch out, floor it. Clutch in, shift to 3rd, clutch out, floor it. Ok, we’re at 35mph now.” And at 65 mph the engine is screaming at about 3700 rpm.

not very pleasant to drive in typical US/Canadian usage. better to just get a bare -bones Fiesta S.